Re: Jury Questioning

by Jiminy Cricket Fri 2 Oct - 1:17:50

Peter Pan wrote:Jiminy and Red, I feel like people confuse "playing a good game" with "telling the most lies". I've never bought into this. Lying your teeth off from day 1 and hoping that the jury "isn't bitter" and votes for you anyway is actually an extremely easy way to play this game. There is very little skill to that. The skill set literally just includes:

1. Lie to everyone except maybe even 1 person
2. Maybe win a few challenges here and there

That is not overly complicated.

Jiminy - I do not want to vote you. And people can call it bitter if they want, but I am reserving my right as a juror to feel a little bitter. It is your job as a player to make sure that the jury feels all right with the way you played the game before you send them home. And I do not feel like I have to give up my right to feel upset out of fear of being labelled 'bitter'. To me that would be letting you get off too easy. I can respect being lied to when it is necessary, and I have been more than happy as a juror to vote for finalists who have lied and betrayed me in the past. But I respect someone who is able assess when it is appropriate to lie and does it at the right moment more than someone who does it all the time and to every single person, minus maybe 1 person (in this case Red).

Red - you were the same way. You would be so over the top with your messages to me. Like, "omg you are the only person I feel like I can actually trust"... and you were always transparent as hell. There was very little tact in how you would approach people. My perception of you is that you hid under Jiminy's thumb this entire game, and then would send people out the door trying to make them feel like you would've kept them around if you could, when in reality you never had any intention of actually helping them out (or at least, that's what you did with me). At least Jiminy put himself out front and center, which I can respect a little more. You hid behind him and tried to make yourself look like the good cop, when you were just as dirty. And like I said, it is completely within your right to play this way, and it is completely within my right to dislike it.

Jiminy and Red... I am sure one of you will win. If so, congrats.

Hook - To me you actually played a game that is more difficult to pull off but that is also easier to respect. During the game, I always felt like I had a good relationship with you; you were always open to discuss strategies and you never told me any unnecessary lies. Yet when when Jiminy nominated me the second time you never really had my back. The way you handled that situation, however, involved more social graces than either Red or Jiminy showed during the entire game. When the tide was turning against me, you kinda stepped aside and let it take me, but you never made me feel as if you owed me anything more than that. It is difficult to build the kind of relationship/alliance with someone where they feel as trusted as I felt with you but doing it without stroking egos or telling outright lies. I don't know if you had intentionally built this type of relationship with me, and I don't know if you had this type of relationship with anyone else, but I respect it. My perception of you is that you played a clean game, you went straight when you needed to go straight, you zigged when you needed to zig, and if you needed to let people drop off along the way you let them go gracefully. Work!

I guess that's all I have to say. The tl;dr version is that I am voting for Hook.

I can respect all that. I did everyone dirty this game, but I definitely did you the most dirty.

I am ok with you not voting for me or Red only because, even though you say those nice things about Hook, it could literally be a can of tuna sitting as the 3rd player here and you would hype their game up and give them a vote. Let's be real about that.

I feel bad to a degree about how I did you this game, but you were always my biggest concern of the "Big 3" (Hook/you/Hatter). If I did not take you out the week I did, you would have either gotten to the end imo or taken me out before I got another chance to get you.

I know you are pissed because I knocked you out right after you had a chance to do it to me (with everyone telling you to). It was by far the most brutal thing I did in the game (even more so than putting up Hook/Hatter only because everything they were telling Red took away any guilt I felt about that move).

You were a dangerous player that had to go, and I won't make apologies for it. I scumbagged the unicorn farts out of you, but you were not the only one. If you want to say you don't respect that personally, I am ok with that. But you downplaying my game saying it is easy to play that way... come on now. You make it seem like lying well (under the context of a BB game), covering your tracks, winning competitions against beasts, and getting back in good with people after showing what a liar I am in the game, are all easy things that anyone could do. Those are words of a bitter and hurt man... but I guess you kind of admit that. So thank you for owing it and being honest about it. I'll take it on the chin... I scumbagged you out of the game, so it would be appropriate for you to try and scumbag me out of a win.

But I didn't do all that I did with my fingers crossed that people wouldn't be bitter in jury. I did everything I could to get Red and me to a final 2. Final 3 obviously takes away a possibility that either of us win the game... but as I've said now during this phase, you can only control so much. You are a juror and earned the right to vote however you want, I just hope you were not a BB fan who said during BB14 that Dan got robbed.

tl;dr version, reading your input made me

Spoiler:

because your words are bitter AF.

by Captain Hook Fri 2 Oct - 1:38:49

Peter Pan wrote:

Hook - To me you actually played a game that is more difficult to pull off but that is also easier to respect. During the game, I always felt like I had a good relationship with you; you were always open to discuss strategies and you never told me any unnecessary lies. Yet when when Jiminy nominated me the second time you never really had my back. The way you handled that situation, however, involved more social graces than either Red or Jiminy showed during the entire game. When the tide was turning against me, you kinda stepped aside and let it take me, but you never made me feel as if you owed me anything more than that. It is difficult to build the kind of relationship/alliance with someone where they feel as trusted as I felt with you but doing it without stroking egos or telling outright lies. I don't know if you had intentionally built this type of relationship with me, and I don't know if you had this type of relationship with anyone else, but I respect it. My perception of you is that you played a clean game, you went straight when you needed to go straight, you zigged when you needed to zig, and if you needed to let people drop off along the way you let them go gracefully. Work!

I guess that's all I have to say. The tl;dr version is that I am voting for Hook.

Thanks so much, Peter. Everything you said about my game is absolutely true. I am not saying that I didn't lie, I don't know if it's possible to play this game without doing it, but I never told unnecessary lies. I feel like a lot of people see someone who lies and backstabs and they are all like, "OMG they were playing so hard", but when someone like me plays a pretty clean game and I get labeled as someone who wasn't as invested in the game as the other 2.

Also, I did have your back when you were nominated the second time. Me and Hatter were going to keep you and we needed 2 more votes. Mulan ignored our messages. Regina obviously wasn't going to keep you. At the time, Red was acting like she would be willing to keep you so we tried to get Tink on board, but she had promised her vote to Belle and she is a loyal person so she wasn't going to flip. There was no point in letting it go to a tie because Jiminy would have voted you out anyways and it wouldn't have been hard to figure out who voted to keep you. I then would have a big target on my back because of that.

by Red Riding Hood Fri 2 Oct - 2:03:37

Red.... you were always transparent as hell. There was very little tact in how you would approach people. My perception of you is that you hid under Jiminy's thumb this entire game...You hid behind him and tried to make yourself look like the good cop, when you were just as dirty. And like I said, it is completely within your right to play this way, and it is completely within my right to dislike it.

Hi Peter,

I respect you opinion, and I appreciate your honesty in regards to why you are the voting the way you are (Hook's is a great guy), but I don't agree with a lot of the things you've mentioned...

I lied a lot in this game sure, there is no secret there. It is a fact, but it was a legit strategy and it was an effective one, as it got me here. I remained target free with lying, and I impacted the game in tremendous amount of ways with lying, so to say that there is no tact involved with that strategy is questionable in my eyes, and it certainly was not an easy strategy. It is very hard to juggle between all sides of the house, because you're always at risk of being exposed. If even one person shared an interaction I had with them with someone on the other side... my game could have been over, but with strategy (which goes beyond lying), one could keep the house divided and make sure that Side A dislikes Side B so much (and vice versa) that they'd never compare notes... Planting seeds for example, was very effective in this case.

I also do not agree with you that I was transparent, because I think if that were true, more people would have caught onto me very early in the game, and I wouldn't have been able to pull of majority of the moves I managed. For example, one could argue that it was very transparent when I voted Mulan out that I was no longer with the boys, and yet, they still trusted me. I'd like to attest that to the solid foundation I built with them over the course of the game, and getting people to trust you and continue to trust you after lying to them, takes a lot of skill, because if you are transparent, they are not going to believe you, so there is definitely strategy involved there.

I feel like people confuse "playing a good game" with "telling the most lies".

I don't think it's a matter of people confusing the two. I think it's a matter of seeing how those lies shaped the outcome of the game and the impact that the lies had on each juror's demise. I could see lying as being written off as a strategy if I was lying just to lie (like saying I couldn't make a comp because my dog died), but that was never the case, it was all strategy. I never lied about personal things. I meant what I said when you mentioned no one was talking to you, and I don't know if that was true or not, but I did feel bad, because I have been there as a player. Nevertheless, I lied only about gameplay, especially when talking to you. I wanted you out 110%, because you were a huge threat. You stayed up for hours to win that HOH comp... literally hours. That showed a lot about your character, and mostly how far you're willing to go to win.

Hook... you never told me any unnecessary lies

And yes, I lied to you and told you I wanted you here, but I'm not going to tell you I want you to leave and pack your bags. I'm going to tell you everything you want to hear to cover my ass in case there was a power to bring you back. lol. That's gameplay, and it essentially is thinking ahead logically in the event that something unexpected happens.... Therefore it was very necessary for my BB life, because had I not done those things, there's no telling what could have happened. It is important in this game to plan for the worst, and that's what I did. If I hurt you on a personal level... I get it, but on a game level, I can't apologize for lying. The lies I told benefitted me long term, kept me safe, granted me an immense amount of power, and brought me here. Needless to say, I think that lying or rather, playing all sides of the house is a very credible, necessary and effective strategy.

by The Mad Hatter Fri 2 Oct - 3:13:55

Peter Pan wrote:Hook - To me you actually played a game that is more difficult to pull off but that is also easier to respect. During the game, I always felt like I had a good relationship with you; you were always open to discuss strategies and you never told me any unnecessary lies. Yet when when Jiminy nominated me the second time you never really had my back. The way you handled that situation, however, involved more social graces than either Red or Jiminy showed during the entire game. When the tide was turning against me, you kinda stepped aside and let it take me, but you never made me feel as if you owed me anything more than that. It is difficult to build the kind of relationship/alliance with someone where they feel as trusted as I felt with you but doing it without stroking egos or telling outright lies. I don't know if you had intentionally built this type of relationship with me, and I don't know if you had this type of relationship with anyone else, but I respect it. My perception of you is that you played a clean game, you went straight when you needed to go straight, you zigged when you needed to zig, and if you needed to let people drop off along the way you let them go gracefully. Work!

I've been reading everything and want to add my opinion to all this.

I feel like you explained this perfectly Peter. It's why I want to give Hook my vote. See, in these types of games, it's important to look ahead and not just at what's presently in front of you. I feel like Jiminy's game hinged very heavily on Red bringing him information and winning competitions. It's all well and good to win competitions and be standing out front and center, but to backstab so incessantly to the point where you alienate other players because of it, puts you in a tough position. And it's not a position of luck or happenstance- it's one you yourself have blame for. You evicted people like Regina, Pan, and myself, without having a care in the world how you came across while doing it. It was very blase is the best way I can put it.

About Red- I agree with what Pan said. A lot of your game hinged on you telling us what we wanted to hear and so forth, but what would've happened if Jiminy were evicted earlier in the game and you hadn't established a true connection with the other people in the game, then what would you have done? Your explanation for evicting Mulan was alright at best. I admit, I fell for it, but a lot of the reason for that comes down to Jiminy pulling for you and when he messed up, you pulled for him.

So therein lies my dilemma about distinguishing between your two games. I honestly don't feel like either of you could've made it to the end without the other, so it makes this tough for me to decide essentially.

With Hook, I agree with what Pan said. His game shouldn't be negated because it was more "clean" or tactful. I think that kept him off people's radars until final 5. That's pretty impressive. Mal or Regina winning HOH before they were evicted and post-Regina coming back, and Jiminy's game would've been shattered. It would've been inevitable I feel like for him to go.

Hook positioned himself in a way that was classy with each member of the house, even when his interactions were more minimal (like with Tink for example). I just don't think it should be so commonplace to ignore a game that was tactful and less deceitful than the games of Red and Jiminy... I'm super bitter about Jiminy and I shouldn't have to feel that way. I'm sure Mal feels some of that as well as Pan. Red- sounds like you betrayed literally everyone in the jury in one way or another.

I just think it's far easier to play a game where you lie whenever you want to and piggyback with someone who uses challenge wins as their main strategy, than it is to play a game where you connect with others and find a way to tactfully maneuver the game and not create a huge sign on your back that screams- "Look at me! I'm a threat!" for almost half the game...

by Jiminy Cricket Fri 2 Oct - 3:46:01

The Mad Hatter wrote:

I've been reading everything and want to add my opinion to all this.

I feel like you explained this perfectly Peter. It's why I want to give Hook my vote. See, in these types of games, it's important to look ahead and not just at what's presently in front of you. I feel like Jiminy's game hinged very heavily on Red bringing him information and winning competitions. It's all well and good to win competitions and be standing out front and center, but to backstab so incessantly to the point where you alienate other players because of it, puts you in a tough position. And it's not a position of luck or happenstance- it's one you yourself have blame for. You evicted people like Regina, Pan, and myself, without having a care in the world how you came across while doing it. It was very blase is the best way I can put it.

So when Belle says my game hinged on a lot of luck, you were quick to agree.

When Pan puts out there that your boy played the best game because it was clean, you are quick to agree (and backtrack by saying "it's not a position of luck or happenstance" that I find myself in a place having to defend my choices)

It is pretty obvious what you are trying to do.

With Hook, I agree with what Pan said. His game shouldn't be negated because it was more "clean" or tactful. I think that kept him off people's radars until final 5. That's pretty impressive.

And Red was literally no ones target ever. And only has heat now for being honest about what she did during the game. If Hook staying off people's radar until final 5 was impressive, where is your praise of Red's game or attempt to sway people to vote for her?

Mal or Regina winning HOH before they were evicted and post-Regina coming back, and Jiminy's game would've been shattered. It would've been inevitable I feel like for him to go.

Regina did win HOH when she came back. And I went up next to hook and had assurances from Red, Tink and Belle that (were noms to have stayed the same) Hook would have bounced. But you used the veto, and voted for me to stay -_-. Not sure what you meant by "It would've been inevitable I feel like for him to go" Hatter.

Please don't put up some facade. Playing politician only works so well when still playing the game. If you want to vote for your homie, just own it.

You want to bring up hypothetical situations, in which you cannot predict or truly know an outcome of, by asking what Red and I would have done without the other. Red and I played with each other in the game, secretly. That is BB... everyone makes alliances, Hook did not play solo. Red and I were not a secret twist, it was not something that relied on powers... it was 2 individual choices to completely trust another person and keep it on the down low. What you are basically saying is anyone in the game deserved to win next to us because we had a final 2 (that everyone had) but were actually able to keep it a secret and completely use it to our advantage to get us here?

Also, you continue to play for your final 2 by arguing on his behalf here when he should be making the points you are making now under some guise of being a partisan open minded jury member?

Come on now. Pan is owning his reasons, don't try and act like you were not voting for your boy from the start. It is disingenuous, unbecoming and dare I say.. transparent. Especially when I am able to point out such inconsistencies in your arguments at first glance my Mad friend.

by Captain Hook Fri 2 Oct - 4:50:56

Jiminy Cricket wrote:

And Red was literally no ones target ever. And only has heat now for being honest about what she did during the game. If Hook staying off people's radar until final 5 was impressive, where is your praise of Red's game or attempt to sway people to vote for her?

True she wasn't on anyones radar, but I feel like she is catching so much heat because of the way she stayed off of peoples radar. It just seems really slimy tbh. Like with what Pan said, she was over the top friendly. I thought I was the only one she did this to until he said something. She would also tell me how I was the only one she trusted, how she had my back. She would write me almost everyday to ask how I was doing or how my day was and say how she hoped we would be friends when this is over. We would wish each other good luck before every challenge. I really thought she was a sincere person who actually wanted to know how my day was, but now I question if those convos really even meant anything to her or was part of her plan to make it seem like she was actually with me. I am sure she did others the same way and that doesn't make them feel good, especially if they thought this person was their friend. I am not saying it is a bad thing if you pretend to like someone...I think we have all done that before, but when you are over the top with it, it just doesn't sit well with people. At least with you, you kept it real. If you were against someone, you didn't go out of your way to kiss their ass and try to be their best friend for life, which I do respect.

I know I probably won't win this game, but I am proud of the way I played. I didn't have to lie so much in this game because I never put myself in a position where I had to do that. Of course if you are running around spreading lies, framing others, and backstabbing people, you are going to have to keep telling one lie after the other to cover your tracks and those lies eventually catch up to you.

by Tinker Bell Fri 2 Oct - 8:28:11

Well gee willickers

*mascara*

by Red Riding Hood Fri 2 Oct - 11:00:54

I'll comment later when I'm not on mobile. There are a lot of things that need to be addressed, clearly.

by Jiminy Cricket Fri 2 Oct - 14:56:41

Captain Hook wrote:I know I probably won't win this game, but I am proud of the way I played. I didn't have to lie so much in this game because I never put myself in a position where I had to do that. Of course if you are running around spreading lies, framing others, and backstabbing people, you are going to have to keep telling one lie after the other to cover your tracks and those lies eventually catch up to you.

I'm glad you found your angle, or "hook" if I may say. All of a sudden you emphasize your clean game after the jury responses (which is smart of you, you recognize that is your opportunity to get some votes with people).

but when you go from an opening speech like

I guess that is where I went wrong in the game...being too loyal. There were times when I should have been more cut throat and ruthless. I will fully admit to my mistake. I guess I should have played as Jiminy and he should have been Hook

To saying how proud you are of your clean loyal game... idk. You do what you have to do to win, but where is the consistency Hook? Are you being much like me or Red now in just saying what people want to hear in hopes it gets you the win? If so, I def appreciate the style kiddo.

Much like while I was in the game, I really should just keep my mouth shut. But therein lies my biggest problem... not knowing when to keep my opinions to myself.

by Captain Hook Fri 2 Oct - 15:20:09

I'm glad you found your angle, or "hook" if I may say. All of a sudden you emphasize your clean game after the jury responses (which is smart of you, you recognize that is your opportunity to get some votes with people).

I did mention in my response to Tink (which was before Hatter or Pan even posted) that I did not have to lie every breath in this game to get to the end. But actually I didn't have to say anything. I think it is pretty obvious that you and Red lied way more than I did.

I guess that is where I went wrong in the game...being too loyal. There were times when I should have been more cut throat and ruthless. I will fully admit to my mistake. I guess I should have played as Jiminy and he should have been Hook

First of all, I wrote that opening speech right after Belle left AKA when I was screwed over big time. I was pissed and feeling down. I do take back what I said though. I don't think I could have told some of the lies and done some of the shady things you two did and still feel good about myself and how I played the game. Especially seeing how crappy the other jurors feel. Of course I feel good sitting here and not being on the receiving end of angry speeches. If I can use that to my advantage and point out my clean game to try and earn votes, then I will.

by Red Riding Hood Fri 2 Oct - 15:37:07

I agree with what Pan said. A lot of your game hinged on you telling us what we wanted to hear and so forth, but what would've happened if Jiminy were evicted earlier in the game and you hadn't established a true connection with the other people in the game, then what would you have done?

Do you honestly believe that understanding what people truly want and using that to my advantage doesn't take skill?

Aside from that... The same could be said for Hook. His game hinged on the fact that he was easily controlled/manipulated. I mean if you really think about it, and he can attest to this, because he’s even said that he didn’t formulate much of anything on his own, where would he be if you were evicted earlier in the game, being that he didn’t establish a true connection with people (similar to the minimal interactions with Tinkerbell you speak of)? Then what would Hook have done? You guys were a packaged deal, so if people wanted to work with you they had to work with Hook by default. That wasn't the case with me. I was always viewed as an independent, and I very well could have managed if Jiminy left, as people never caught onto me days on end. I’m not so sure, however, the same could be said for Hook if you left earlier. He didn't talk to people nor did he establish any foundation of trust. And sure.. he didn't lie to anyone as much as I did, but that's because he didn't talk much to anyone... Anyway, this is neither here nor there. We can't base gameplay on what if's, because there is no proof of what would have actually occurred. We can only base our opinions on the facts that are presented, and what we know to be true...

by Red Riding Hood Fri 2 Oct - 15:53:36

Hook wrote:True she wasn't on anyones radar, but I feel like she is catching so much heat because of the way she stayed off of peoples radar.

I’m a bit perplexed by this statement, to say the least... I’m catching heat because I managed to stay off of people’s radar? To me that’s impressive, despite the process it took to achieve those means... Especially given the circumstances of people shedding light on the fact that my game was “transparent." If it was that transparent and no one ever took a shot at me, than perhaps my strategy really was extremely well crafted, because I was never targeted, even when I should have been.

Hook wrote:It just seems really slimy tbh

Hmmmmm. I think we're beating a dead horse here... we’ve already established that my gameplay was not the nicest form of strategy, Hook. Been there done that… But at least I dictated my own fate in this game and did not leave it in the hands of others to control…This game is about who made the best strategical moves to get to the end of the game, and I did that, making moves left and right that benefited my game and my partner's game. Some of the moves you made did not benefit you at all, rather they benefited me. That is something that separates us greatly.

I lied to everyone I get it... That doesn't mean I should be burned at the stake for it. It was my strategy, nothing personal. I didn't take anyone's unborn baby lol.... I simply made game moves to benefit me.

I also mentioned several times that I did "betray" multiple people in the game, but I think you are taking things a bit too seriously and people are forgetting a few key facts... let's actually sit here and think logically about this for a moment....

The only person who I can say should even be remotely upset on a personal level with my gameplay is Tinkerbell. I didn't have a final 2 with anyone else aside from Tinkerbell and Jiminy, and I broke that final 2 agreement with her to keep him in the game. I never initiated nor promised anyone else a final 2, so I'm not sure why people are upset that I didn't treat them as a priority? If people weren't taking me to F2 if given the opportunity, why should I not make moves against them to get them out and make room for the person who will take me? That's exactly what I did, and it is the gist of my game. If I wasn't your #1, you weren't mine. It was nothing personal, just business... plain and simple.

by Dr Whale Fri 2 Oct - 16:40:22

Ok if I am juror
Red you sent me a message the first day did you send a message to everyone day 1? You seemed way to way to paranoid you said I needed to go cause I was catching on to your game that was a silly statement you just played it too safe. I guess I should have just put one letter posts in my diary room to get a,higher post count.
Jim I never talked to you I didn't trust you at all but I love strategy and it was obvious you had a lot of different alliances and were willing to make big moves which I respect good job. Do you feel you controlled the entire game.
Caption hook how did u out play the other two? Did you ever call the shots?

by Regina Mills Fri 2 Oct - 17:12:55

I never initiated nor promised anyone else a final 2, so I'm not sure why people are upset that I didn't treat them as a priority?

Beeeeeeeeeeecause.....you made people think you were with them 100% and they could trust you no matter what. Has nothing to do with who you treated as a priority, more with the fact that now everyone can see how your "niceness" was all just a farce. I'm not speaking for every juror here, but personally, I am very frustrated and sad that everything we talked about and how close we got in the game, at least from my end, was sincere, but the same cannot be said for you. Is it my (the jurors') fault that we didn't compare notes about you? Absolutely, you played us there, but you should probably not be criticizing Hook's game right now because yours was also far from perfect. You say you had some sort of control every round, but then say you were hurt that so and so left each round. Please, if you had control, you would have done something about it. And also like you said before, you wanted to make it to the end with Jiminy no matter what or who you had to backstab, but did it ever occur to you that you would have had a much better shot at winning the game if you got rid of the biggest threat at final 4 in Jiminy? Yea, you made that deal with him since Day 1 apparently, but someone with half a brain cell should have seen how much control Jiminy had over the game. I am not saying you would have won, but you for sure would have had my vote in that case. And your argument that you had a hand in almost every eviction would have been a lot stronger than it is now (without Jiminy in the finals) Because now, all you are doing every time you speak, is making Jiminy's case as to why he should win that much stronger.

Like I said to some jurors, I feel more impressed by Jiminy's ability to control everyone in this game, yes even you, than I am by you being a "snitch" and his side b*itch.

by Red Riding Hood Fri 2 Oct - 18:35:00

... made people think you were with them 100% and they could trust you no matter what.

And??? That's the game, Regina. People lie... People say things they don't mean in Big Brother all the time, so it is baffling that you take issue with this. I don't know what to tell you. I've said consistently that the things I've said to you on a "personal" level were honest, and I meant that. Though let's be real... How personal can we even get? We don't even know who people are for sure... Anyhow, I never did anything out of malice, it was gameplay, and it seems as if people are confusing the two. I did like you in this game, but as far as gameplay was concerned, you were a threat and you needed to go just like everyone else. You don't get a pass because I like you on a personal level. If keeping you doesn't benefit my game, then why should I do it? And you have also lied to me as well, so it wasn't just a one way street (i.e. Mulan vote). There seems to be a misconception that making people trust you is wrong in a game like BB, when it's not. It's gameplay, and it worked out, and though there were a plethora of opportunities for me to get caught, I never was.

You say you had some sort of control every round, but then say you were hurt that so and so left each round. Please, if you had control, you would have done something about it

I did have control every round (usually because I was the swing vote/got my target up), and I've explained that. I may have felt badly about certain people going sure, but on a personal level, because I genuinely liked talking to certain people. On a game level, however, I stuck with my guns and did what I had to do. You keep bringing this up as if I regret any of my moves, and the fact of the matter is that I do not. I am able to remove my emotions from a game and focus strictly on strategy. Thus, I didn't change anything in regards to the vote outs, because it agreed with what I wanted anyway.

Yea, you made that deal with him since Day 1 apparently, but someone with half a brain cell should have seen how much control Jiminy had over the game

What is your point exactly? Jiminy was my F2 and as I've mentioned before it was the only alliance I wasn't going to turn against, so if he beats me or not is irrelevant. I would be more than happy with him winning. Also, I get that your frustrated, but I have yet to make any personal comments in this game, so I'd appreciate it if you'd do the same towards me. It's just a game, and it's really not that serious.

And your argument that you had a hand in almost every eviction would have been a lot stronger than it is now (without Jiminy in the finals) Because now, all you are doing every time you speak, is making Jiminy's case as to why he should win that much stronger.

How so? You keep stating these things as facts, but have yet to include any reasons behind these assumptions... We're just going to agree to disagree. Jiminy played a phenomenal game, but I played a great game as well and whether you want to admit that or not is on you. You can sit here and say that I'm making his argument stronger, which is fine, but if it weren't for me on a lot of instances, he probably wouldn't even be here, so I'm not sure what you're getting at.

Ultimately, as a juror, you have the freedom to vote however you want, and you have the opportunity to voice your opinion on my game. Do as you please. I'm not going to change your mind, as it is obviously already set and has been since my opening statement. You can say I'm a b.itch or that I'm a snitch or whatever it is that makes you feel better, but you need to realize that you are making things personal when this is only a game... And really... It's not that serious.

by Red Riding Hood Fri 2 Oct - 18:36:01

Thanks for the comment/question Whale. I'll answer shortly

by Regina Mills Fri 2 Oct - 19:33:02

Nobody is taking anything personal sweetheart, I just don't like to play the way you do, and that is all. If you win, then good job to you. But yea, anyway. Can we vote now?

by Captain Hook Fri 2 Oct - 19:49:46

Aside from that... The same could be said for Hook. His game hinged on the fact that he was easily controlled/manipulated. I mean if you really think about it, and he can attest to this, because he’s even said that he didn’t formulate much of anything on his own, where would he be if you were evicted earlier in the game, being that he didn’t establish a true connection with people (similar to the minimal interactions with Tinkerbell you speak of)? Then what would Hook have done? You guys were a packaged deal, so if people wanted to work with you they had to work with Hook by default. That wasn't the case with me. I was always viewed as an independent, and I very well could have managed if Jiminy left, as people never caught onto me days on end. I’m not so sure, however, the same could be said for Hook if you left earlier. He didn't talk to people nor did he establish any foundation of trust. And sure.. he didn't lie to anyone as much as I did, but that's because he didn't talk much to anyone... Anyway, this is neither here nor there. We can't base gameplay on what if's, because there is no proof of what would have actually occurred. We can only base our opinions on the facts that are presented, and what we know to be true...

You are right, we can't base it on what ifs. So you have no proof that I would not still be here if Hatter had left early on. I am pretty sure I would have been ok. I won more challenges than him and a lot of the times he wasn't even online because of his work schedule. So if I really was his "side b itch" and relied on him, then how did I ever make it through those days without him? Rolling Eyes

And no one is doubting that you would have stayed if Jiminy left. You had everyone believing you were with them 100%.

You guys were a packaged deal, so if people wanted to work with you they had to work with Hook by default. That wasn't the case with me. I was always viewed as an independent

You were viewed as independent, but you weren't really. And don't act like you and Jiminy weren't a packaged deal as well. The only difference is that people knew me and Hatter came as a package, but they didn't know about you and Jiminy and that you were going to run back and share the info you gathered for him. I am impressed at how you two managed to hide your relationship, but the fact that I was in a very obvious f2 with someone and we made it to f5 together and I made it here is even more impressive.

by Captain Hook Fri 2 Oct - 21:27:56

Dr Whale wrote:

Caption hook how did u out play the other two? Did you ever call the shots?

Hey Whale! It has been a long time. Smile

Did I ever call the shots? Early on in the game, I would suggest certain people be nominated or be the ones to leave and the alliance would post "sounds good to me." lol does that count? But, I did not want to be the one to call the shots a lot. I needed to keep a target off of my back if I could. I have done the leader thing before, and it backfired. I also didn't want to be a floater or someone just around for a vote. A lot of the time, we would discuss things as a group and come to a decision about things, but I definitely spoke up if I thought so and so should leave instead.

how did u out play the other two?

I think I outplayed them both because I managed to play this game and get out who I wanted, and I did it without having to lie every breath and backstab everyone.

I also think I formed better social relationships than they did. No, I didn't send everyone a daily hello how are you message, but I did try and talk with people as much as I could and I was always sincere. Obviously when you talk to anyone, it is part game. You want to get in good with that person in hopes that they wouldn't put you up, but I feel like with Red and Jiminy, it was all game to them. Except when it came to each other of course. I think they didn't think about the jury aspect of the game at all and they just hoped people wouldn't be bitter and would give them the vote if they made it to the end. I always had the jury in mind, which is why I wanted to play a good clean game. You can't expect to make it to the end, admit you did everyone dirty and expect people will just easily forgive and write your name down.

by Captain Hook Fri 2 Oct - 21:34:40

Regina Mills wrote:

but did it ever occur to you that you would have had a much better shot at winning the game if you got rid of the biggest threat at final 4 in Jiminy? Yea, you made that deal with him since Day 1 apparently, but someone with half a brain cell should have seen how much control Jiminy had over the game.

Agreed. That is why I was so "easy manipulated" as Red said. I was thinking there is no way in hell she will keep Jiminy. It is not good for her game, so of course I almost had a stroke when I saw she evicted Belle. Not saying she would have beat Belle, but her voting out Jiminy would have made her look even better in the jurors eyes.

by Belle French Fri 2 Oct - 21:35:48

Captain Hook wrote: I almost had a stroke when I saw she evicted Belle.

Its okay Hook, so did I Razz

by Mulan Fri 2 Oct - 21:40:53

by Mulan Fri 2 Oct - 21:59:04

Red I kind of agree with Regina. You used people think you were all oh I'm so upset thing. You were my number 1 alliance but yeah, you used everyone?

May I ask questions?

by **Neal Cassidy** Fri 2 Oct - 22:01:48

Yes, you may. Welcome back, Mulan!

by Mulan Fri 2 Oct - 22:03:52

Thanks. I'll PM you.

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